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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Mar 27, 2006 10:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Do you use SHNtool? What does "shntool len" tell you about these files?

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Poster: Esau13 Date: Mar 27, 2006 11:21pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Never used "shntool" before, just attempted to install it but it doesn't seem to want to on my computer. Excuse my ignorance, but does "shntool" work for FLACs?

I checked the WAV MD5's as well after converting the FLACs and they also check out fine & play without issue.

Just really confused now since all files work fine at my end. I'm at a loss, since I haven't changed a thing I do over the 30+ shows I've added already.

Perhaps the show can just be deleted then.

Thanks

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Mar 28, 2006 12:11am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Yes, it will run against FLAC's too. It's a command line tool. Copy it to your C:\Windows\system32 folder (along with the included DLL's). Open a command window and from the show folder with the FLAC files run "shntool len *.flac".

For example, I have a recording in my D:\FLAC\phish folder. Here's the commands I type into the command window. All the stuff I type is in BOLD.

C:\Documents and Settings\brad.leblanc>d:

D:>cd \FLAC\phish

D:\>shntool len *.flac

D:\Temp\ph99-10-08>shntool len *.flac
length expanded size cdr WAVE problems filename
10:03.18 106411580 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d1t01.flac
9:13.23 97603340 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d1t02.flac
9:18.58 98567660 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d1t03.flac
7:07.31 75395756 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d1t04.flac
9:17.23 98308940 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d1t05.flac
13:21.05 141308204 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d1t06.flac
15:02.15 159148124 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d2t01.flac
19:15.19 203786732 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d2t02.flac
9:49.35 103981964 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d2t03.flac
7:58.34 84399212 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d2t04.flac
16:54.09 178890812 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d2t05.flac
5:32.22 58616588 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d3t01.flac
5:17.54 56045852 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d3t02.flac
10:50.05 114671804 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d3t03.flac
7:57.00 84142844 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d3t04.flac
3:53.17 41141228 --- -- ---xx ph99-10-08d3t05.flac
160:50.68 1702420640 B (totals for 16 files, 0.5750 o
verall compression ratio)

The above information as run against your FLAC files will give me some hints as to what may have caused this. I suspect one of your audio-editing programs saved non-standard header info to the wave files, which is preventing our MP3/Ogg encoders from running correctly. If this is the case I can teach you how to identify it and remove it before uploading.

Perhaps the show can just be deleted then

I vote for learning the cause and how to fix it so we can avoid this for future uploads. Nobody benefits if we give up.

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2006-03-28 08:11:18

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Poster: xtifr Date: Mar 28, 2006 9:53am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

It's my understanding that FLAC (unlike shorten) only preserves the raw audio data from the WAVs, and any non-standard headers are discarded. This, if I recall correctly, caused some early suspicion about FLAC's reliability when it was found that compressing and uncompressing did not necessarily result in an unchanged WAV. Once it was discovered that this happened only with WAVs that had non-standard headers, the suspicions went away.

I also don't share Brad's enthusiasm for shntool. I used to use it for detecting sector boundary errors, but once I discovered that FLAC could not only detect those, but could fix them as well, I lost all interest in shntool, and purged it from my system--a decision I haven't regretted once. Still, I suppose it can't hurt to run it if it makes you feel better. :)

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Mar 28, 2006 10:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

I also don't share Brad's enthusiasm for shntool. I used to use it for detecting sector boundary errors, but once I discovered that FLAC could not only detect those, but could fix them as well, I lost all interest in shntool, and purged it from my system--a decision I haven't regretted once.

Careful! Knowing where the SBE's exist should affect how you fix them! If there are SBE's in the wave files, you should be fixing them by each seamless set, and *NOT* encoding/fixing a 2 set show all at once. A common error in seeding is to turn on the SBE fix in FLAC Frontend, and then encode a whole 2 set show in one go - this is WRONG. If there is a SBE in set 1, the last track of set 1 will get padded with samples from set 2 instead of with zeroes - which is the correct behavior.

Because of this I always encourage people to familiarize themselves with shntool and reading its output before they go about fixing stuff incorrectly.

-Brad

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Poster: xtifr Date: Mar 28, 2006 11:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Very important point, and I do indeed encode set-at-a-time for this very reason, and I'm glad you mentioned it. But I don't see how shntool helps with this. It's not going to prevent anyone from trying to repair the detected errors with a show-at-once fix (whether through FLAC or some other tool). Maybe I'm overlooking or misunderstanding something?

Still, I don't see shntool hurting either, as I said before. I have no use for it myself, but there's certainly nothing wrong with using it.

I also keep my original WAVs until I've verified that the FLACs are correct and complete. Sometimes I even keep them until I'm sure the FLACs have been made public on the Archive. :)

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Poster: Esau13 Date: Mar 29, 2006 7:57pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Hey all, well, after having a friend familiar SHNtool attempt to run it on my computer we're back at the start, unable to run it for some reason which neither of us can figure out.

I was however able to download & run the program Diana linked to above. I've played around with the Trader's Little Helper and the one error I was able to come across was the files in question "are no CD quality".

I think my problem may have been that when I transfered from cassette to my HDD using soundforge 8 the setting was at 44.1 24 bit and I probally missed converting side b of the cassette (d1t07, d2t01, d2t03, d2t04) back to 16 bit.

I believe this is he problem with the files I uploaded.

If there is anything I can post to show you Brad, please let me know, but I do feel this iswhat happened, so I imagine re-uploading is perhaps the best option?

Again, I appreciate the help.
Greg

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Mar 29, 2006 8:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Yes, if you still have the uncut wave files try opening them in Soundforge and see what it tells you for format.

If you don't have them, you should re-transfer the show (sorry!), and dither the 24bit files down to 16bit before splitting the tracks out and compressing them.

Once they are ready to be uploaded again, use the link on the left side of the current details page to "Replace this item" and follow the instructions. Please post questions to the forum - a new thread might be recommended so it doesn't get buried with this old one.

Make sense?

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Poster: Esau13 Date: Mar 29, 2006 8:13pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Yep, makes sense to me. I checked the original WAVs with SF8 and it appears the tracks in question are 24 bit. I have the original transfers (Side A & Side B) un-tracked which are stillin 24 bit so I can easily dither to 16 bit and retrack & upload.

Thanks alot for your help Brad.

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Poster: Esau13 Date: Mar 28, 2006 1:00am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Thanks Brad, I did as you mentioned, copied the files to my C:\Windows\system32 folder (along with the included DLL's), the tried as you mentioned: (my info I use C: drive)

C:\Documents and Settings\Greg>cd \FLAC\FatCats

I am told the system cannot find the path specified. My second attempt said somthing about shntool not being a recognized program.

I have attempted to use shntool on numerous occasions but have never been able to get it to work on this machine.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Mar 28, 2006 2:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

If you have a PC and want to do the same thing as shntool, you can do it with this GUI instead, Trader's Little Helper:
http://thor.prohosting.com/roh0205/

I'm having trouble pulling up the page for it right this sec, but I imagine it will accessible later.

This post was modified by Diana Hamilton on 2006-03-28 10:09:21

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Mar 28, 2006 2:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Blasphemy! Long live command line! :)

Edit: this is probably a much better option Greg.

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2006-03-28 10:37:23

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Poster: Esau13 Date: Mar 28, 2006 2:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Thanks Diana, I'll keep checking that link.

I've been called in to work this afternoon, so I probally won't be able to try anything more or check in until tomorrow morning. I'm sorry I haven't been able to grasp this. I'm sure you have other things to do but I do appreciate all the help Brad. I'll try to check in asap & let you kow how I've made out.

Again, thank you kindly
Greg

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: Mar 28, 2006 1:41am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Can you give me the exact folder structure for your FLAC files? Browse to the files in Windows Explorer, then copy/paste it from the Address field here.

When you download SHNtool from here:

http://www.etree.org/

Make sure you have copied both

cygwin1.dll
-and-
shntool.exe

to your C:\Windows\System32 folder.

Then if you open a command window and just type "shntool" (without the quotes) it should work although it needs more arguments.

the tried as you mentioned: (my info I use C: drive)

C:\Documents and Settings\Greg>cd \FLAC\FatCats


This assumes that on your C drive you have a folder called "FLAC" and in that folder you have another folder called "FatCats". Is that correct? Might not be...

So to help translate the command you are issuing, you can read the above as "change directory to C:\FLAC\FatCats"

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2006-03-28 09:41:28

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Poster: Esau13 Date: Mar 28, 2006 1:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help: Half show now static?

Yes, I download from etree & I have copied both files to C:\Windows\System32 folder.( C:\WINDOWS\system32) I also tried opening a command window and typing "shntool" (without quotes) and was told it was not a recognized program

This is whats in the address field.


C:\Documents and Settings\Greg\My Documents\FLAC\FatCats

I have tried with & without "My Documents" in the command line after eading your last reply, both end with the same message of system cannot find the path specified.